Concave Earth Theory

(Author’s note: I’ve archived the old concave Earth theory article here for past reference). This new article is split into 10 pages for easy download. Each page is accessed under the ads at the end of the article or via the link before that. I’ve also now kept the menu at the top of each page for easier navigation.

There are six pieces of direct evidence, that I know of, which purport to show that we live inside a concave Earth (Dyson sphere). None of this evidence is 100% conclusive at the moment, but one item is very close. There are also three pieces of indirect evidence which by process of elimination usually rule out the three other models – convex heliocentric, convex geocentric, and flat earth.

Direct evidence

1. Old maps
2. Modern maps
3. 19th century balloon observations
4. Tamarack mines
5. Laser between two posts
6. Rectilineator

Indirect evidence

7. Huge horizons
8. Binocular effect
9. Bendy light
10. Overall conclusion

Direct evidence

1. Old maps

Donald Sarty (YT name: Sumstuff52) has found old maps in the Glen McLaughlin Map Collection dating from the 17th, 18th, and even as late as the 19th century (but mostly 18th) whose latitude and longitude lines have been curved “the other way” than we are used to. This curvature gives them the appearance of concavity rather than convexity. Below are a few examples out of many.

concave earth map1
Japanese map from no later than 1865.
concave earth map2
A Dutch map created no later than 1799.
concave earth map4
Another Japanese map dated 1796.
concave earth map3
An English map dated between 1737 to 1739.
Another Dutch map possibly made in 1696.
A German map dated to 1738.

How did these maps come about? We can only speculate, but there are a couple of clues. 1. After checking quite a lot of these maps, the earliest date I found which showed earth as a concave sphere was 1625, with most of the Glen McLaughlin Map Collection dated between early-and mid-18th century (1700 to 1770?). 2. All these maps from this collection show California as an island or with the peninsula much higher up than where it is depicted today. Was this because of bad cartography via insufficient knowledge? Not exactly; at least according to this website:

Although explorers and map makers as early as 1548 knew that California was a peninsula, many maps from the 17th and 18th centuries depict California as an island.


If they knew the truth but still drew California as an island anyway, were these maps copied from much older sources – pre-1548? Correct source maps of California may not have been available to the cartographer and so older source maps had to be used. Perhaps these world maps are collections of much older smaller maps of local areas which show neither convexity nor concavity, such as this one from 1548. Could California really have been an island or a pennisula at the time of the creation of the source map? Salton Sink is below sea level and so is Death Valley above it. You will also see lots of lakes above death valley nearly all the way up to Seattle. This is a definite possibility.

However, a few later concave sphere maps (but still pre-1800), outside the Glen McLaughlin Map Collection, show California as it is today. Here are a couple below which show California more or less correctly. The north pole looks very interesting too.

A world map drawn sometime between 1472-1700 (probably 1600s) shows California a little bit more correctly.
Payne map from 1798 showing Earth’s concavity and California correctly.

Most importantly, if you type in “map of the earth 1600” into an image search engine, nearly all the maps of the entire “globe” show a concave sphere. The same applies to “ancient maps of the earth” or “ancient maps“. Even typing “globe” into the keywords – “ancient maps of the globe” brought a total of five convex old world maps with many more concave ones evident.

Donald’s video showing only a very small handful of ancient concave maps.

This shows that nearly all the cartographers in the renaissance (early 1600s) thought the Earth was a concavity, not a convexity. What happened at this time? The “primitive” man idea is ruled out because Concave Earth Theory (CET) is counter-intuitive. Previous to early 1600 AD only Plato believed that we lived inside a concave Earth (Phædo). The Earth (e.g. water) looks like a flat plane to the horizon and so an uneducated man would presume that the Earth was flat. Mathematicians and astronomers in the Middle Ages presumed the Earth was geocentric convex, thanks largely to the publication of Ptolemy’s Algamast… or so we are told. This latter model is also intuitive, as the heavens look to be rotating around the Earth.

If CET was suddenly discovered by a group of cartographers around 1600 AD, was it discovered through experiment or through a new religion/philosophy? Science was extremely fledgling if non-existent in 1600 AD; although mankind may have been able to have reproduced something akin to the 1897 rectilinear experiment privately. The Rosicrucians for example were rumored to be scientifically far ahead of their time in the 1600s. What new philosophy or religion could have sprung up around 1600 AD to influence cartographers to produce cavity maps? At this time, neither religion nor experiment purporting Earth’s concavity is documented anywhere that I know of, but that is not to say these documents could perhaps exist or that the experiments were either deliberately not documented (private), or the documents have been lost.

Either way, these maps aren’t supposed to exist within the official history of cosmology… yet they do. We are told the cosmological transition is from geocentric convex in the Middle Ages to heliocentric convex in the enlightenment era until today. All ancient world “globe” maps should therefore be convex, yet they are nearly all concave. Something is glaring missing from history.

The official story has been shown to differ from reality with Newton. It is said that Newton thought that gravity was a pull by the large mass of the Earth, yet in his letters it is shown that he thought gravity was the exact opposite – a push on mass by “spirit”. It wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to assume that Copernicus and/or Galileo really thought that the Earth was concave rather than convex. Who has the power to hide or even forge documents? Who educated the masses in the early-to-mid 19th century? The Church.

Overall there is a good possibility that the original knowledge-holders had discovered that the Earth was concave by rational means, but we can never know for sure… and if they did, I can’t find any documents to show this. These maps should at least pique the interest of the curious mind however; and show that Concave Earth Theory is definitely not new. On that basis I give this piece of evidence only a 10% chance for a concave Earth.

Next: 2. Modern maps

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835 Responses to Concave Earth Theory

  1. snakelogos says:

    Its interesting that concave earth fits what is said in the nag hammadi secret gospel of john.
    There it is said that the world is a cave or tomb where we are locked in by the false god. His intentions of making us asleep and unaware and the fact that his creation is a cheap copy of the true world, are the reason for the many deceptions and illusions around us.

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    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      Very interesting. I must give that text a read.

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      • snakelogos says:

        Yes, its interesting how the text gives a model that is so consistent with reality from many points of view: philosophical, political, psychological, and even geographic/astronomic.
        Its not surprise that such suppressed christianity has been incorrectly labelled ‘gnostic’ and its obvious proto-anarchist nature not found in any other religion (except maybe early jainism) shadowed with bullshit new-ageism and bogus interpretations.

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        • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

          Yes, I am more inclined to your view as well. I was speaking to a young Hungarian man who is definitely on the same lines of thought. He views this world as a poor artificial replica of the real one and that everything here breaks down (entropy) and this collapse is accelerating over the centuries. Looking forward to seeing you on the forum snakelogos. I can see many thoughtful contributors adding stuff when it is up and running (probably tomorrow).


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  2. Avvakum says:

    Been reading a lot of your work the past few months and I am impressed. Please don’t assume that types like me, the ‘religious Christian’ types, would be against your work. For me, the Concave model ‘works’ for me quite well as an Orthodox Christian both rationally and Scripturally and from the teachings of the Early Fathers. The Cosmology of the world in early Christian times was pagan geocentric or covert esoteric Heliocentrism, expressed later in the Hermetic and Cabbalistic literature before it became open in modern times. Being free of earlier systems errors and in fact reflecting the true nature of reality, I have nothing against it and everything for it.

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    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      Yeah, Christians are for this model, while atheists don’t like it. I think the obvious reason is that this model is an artificial philosophy rather than than a natural one, so therefore for Christians, God fits in much better.

      They tell us that the Hermetic literature denoted a heliocentric model, but there is a passage quoted in a book which suggests a wrong interpretation. I outlined it here:


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  3. trigun4 says:


    I would like to know what Sumerians say about the shape of the Earth. Can you research and make article on it?
    We all know how flawed heliocentrism is and how Sitchin imposed heliocentric model on Sumerians talk on sun, moon and planets. It could be Celestial Sphere with star of david sacred geometry instead of Sun in the center.
    I think it is important thing to do to connect sumerians with concave earth theory. Lets see how sumerians fit in concave model as they are the oldest civilization after north polar civilization.
    Sun, moon and stars were created on 4th day, sumerians are older than that so they could be very well describing octahedron and planets orbiting it.
    I would like to know what’s your take on Sumerians using concave earth model. :)

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    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      I’ve only read a smattering on old Sumerian texts. I would find them marginally interesting in regards to concave Earth theory because I wouldn’t necessarily expect them to know the correct cosmology. About their own creation on the other hand, is very interesting indeed. I don’t trust Sitchin either. So, it would take a long time to try and find what is and what isn’t. I don’t read ancient Sumerian either, so all sources cannot be truly verified. After a while I could get a lot of sources together and see if anything stands out, but I’m more interested in their ancient history accounts than anything else.

      Research it yourself and upload it on the new forum I’m putting up. I’m about to make a separate forum with lots of different but possibly related topics (including concave Earth) to give us a more community feel to what I want to write about.


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  4. steve says:

    WH, this is a site I found wondering if you’ve already read it.
    Eric Dubay Real Flat Earther Interview
    March 23, 2015
    It says it’s about flatearth but, it does have an interesting picture of a HOLE AT THE NORTH POLE…if the pic is real, here’s visual proof.
    Here’s a link to the pic.

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    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      I saw that when I was writing a couple of the articles. To be honest I am not sure. I’m much more inclined to believe that it is the limitations of the satellite sensor and/or movement of the satellite than evidence for a hole. Unfortunately, I can’t make out any landmass underneath the clouds to get a better idea. The hole isn’t supposed to be anywhere near as large as that and also a bit closer to Russia than Alaska or Scandinavia. That hole area could have been blacked out, but it looks like a satellite image limitation if you look at the edges of the “hole”. The date of year is also very important, because it is dark at the north pole during the weeks around December – however, it could be an infrared picture, so…

      Found the date: January 6, 1967 by ESSA-3, and in November 23, 1968 by ESSA-7.

      ESSA-3 looks to be because it is the Dec solstice time (a less defined hole and more graduated light). ESSA-7 looks like a limitation of the composite image due to the movement of the satellite orbiting around the north pole? And maybe ESSA-3 was orbiting around the south pole and therefore could see more of the north pole? Just a guess though. I would have thought both satellites were sent to the south pole as the Americans still continue to do that.

      It looks to be a visible light composite (but still not sure) – Weirdly, I am more with the agency’s reasoning with this one.

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  5. OneOfLove says:

    The world you live in in is a kind of mixture of a flat earth and concave earth.

    That is, you are living inside a round spherical body (you could call it a Dyson Sphere/concave). Thereby you are living on a “kind of” flat surface inside this sphere which basically encapsulates this “kind of” flat surface.

    Why “kind of” flat? This seems to be correlated to the Torus-structure. That is, the bottom of the ocean, which encapsulates the continent surface(s) is at a lower altitude than the surface of the continents. So you essentially would see a half torus/doughnut shape on the “upper” part inside the sphere.

    Thereby the kind of flat surface is consisting of higher dimensional artificial super computer like structures, like processing or computing units. These can bee seen on many pictures and videos taken by the alleged ISS and so forth. Or you see it brilliantly on other planets.

    Further more the sun and moon are located INSIDE the sphere. The sun especially is thereby a reflector or converter that transforms energy from the higher dimensions (or a potential sun outside of the earth dome/sphere – whereby this potential outer “sun” would then transform energy – from another dimension – into the solar system sphere and channel it through into the planetary spheres).

    There are now a few possibilities regarding the moon and the sun inside the sphere/dome which we like to adress.

    Most likely they both are of the same type of construction, only WAY smaller in scale. They are in this sense comparable to space crafts in a fixated circular orbit. That is, they are these spherical domes with a kind of flat surface (which is shape shifting, thus simulating that the sun is moving around its own axis) inside and the concave view lets it appear to be round (which only is correct for the outer shell/encapsulation).

    Or the sun would be a flat disk in the sky channelling through energy from “outside”. This is less likely (flat disk shape).

    ALso the sun inside the earth dome/sphere also is used as a portal to exit (“comets” flying into the sun could therefore be UFOS) or enter the dome. This is another hint, that it is a sphere inside the dome, a kind of black hole if you like, since solar bodies are essentially black holes.

    planetary bodies are black holes also in a way, since the kind of flat surface has black hole characteristics. the whole data or information that is 3D holographically processed inside the dome (resulting in the environment you visually perceive) is stored on a black hole kind layer/kind of flat surface – additional information: galaxies are generated or projected from a black hole sun in the middle, the same accounts for solar systems and so forth, in holographically decreasing scale.

    That is, in general, the kind of flat surface which is essentially the motherboard of the planetary (or solar and so forth, since it is the same type of construction) body creates the environment you live “on” (allegedly). It processes the information and energy virtually, digitally, holographically.

    Regarding the moon:

    The moon is also (MOST likely), therefore, a sphere as well with a kind of flat surface in the middle (the inside earth’s moon such as a potential “real moon” outside of it, which would be of the same type of construction).

    It exists orbiter footage (pictures and videos) of the moon that suggest that someone or something approached the moon and AT LEAST flew around it or in front of it.

    Now you maybe have already realized that none of your “space shuttles” can leave the dome/sphere.

    Thus material which would be allegedly taken in outer space would have to be taken by technology that you are not using officially. They can say we put an Apollo module into space to fly to the moon, whereby they used complete different technology. This could be one explanation.

    Another explanation could be, that they only flew to the moon inside the earth’s sphere/dome. The question remains how did they get the footage of the far side of the moon. This is something the instrument is still figuring out.

    It could be that they have camera technology to lid up the darkened parts of the moon in a way that they can receive results that are looking like you would make a picture of the front part of the moon.

    But anyway, maybe you remember some experiments that were supposedly done by the Apollo astronauts where they descended a part of the module “onto the lunar surface”. The moon then “rang like a bell”. This is due to the module part hit the moon’s dome. The question remains which moon dome did it hit? The one inside the earth’s sphere or outside in space. Both is possible. Some footage even seems to be taken inside the moon sphere, but this could also be a misinterpretation. This needs still to be clarified.

    Then lets take a look at the “night sky”. The night sky you look at is a simulation. It is generated by the inward surface of the dome/sphere. It is thereby, most likely, duplicating the stars and planets (and alike) outside of the dome. This is under the assumption that they actually exist out there to begin with, which should be the case.

    However, when you zoom in on planets and stars at the night sky you can observe that they are no planets or stars but rather shape shifting structures that emit a light.

    That is, it is VERY likely that NASA and other space agencies ONLY make pictures of the earths dome inward surface motherboard that generates these “images” of stars, planets, nebulae and alike.

    This is corroborated by the fact that their pictures also show these subtle substructures (at the dome surface, they are like processing units) that are underlying nebulae, planets and galaxies. They are all areas where light is emitted, resulting in these dots you see at the night sky without zooming in on them.

    When agencies with their big telescopes zoom in on these structures/areas they get a big image of a planet or nebulae and so forth.

    This mentioned artificial substructure (earth’s doom inward surface motherboard) can also be seen on own pictures and so forth, thus it highly suggests that the agency pictures are also only focussing the faked duplicates at the earth’s doom surface.

    The sun they show you on SOHO cameras most likely resembles the sun inside the dome/sphere. They take this material (as well as all other images of planets and stars, galaxies and so forth) with EARTH BASED telescopes.

    They can thereby zoom in that far that you get pictures like from the alleged curiosity rover which is NOT on the mars surface but pasted in to these areal pictures they take from the area where the mars hologram/duplicate planet is created. because the surface of mars, when you see through the fake sand and smudging/blurring obfuscation looks the same as the surface of the moon, pluto and the other planets although some like Jupiter have a more “not see through” hologram coverage.

    That is because all of them are only existing at the dome surface which has a specific kind of structures which – on first sight – look like buildings/bases/industrial areas created by other entities. But in general the surface of all of them has this artificial/constructed stuff “on the surface” which resembles the computer motherboard that creates the surface experience inside such a dome.

    Of course when looking at these duplicates at the staged/faked/projected night sky you cannot see the surface (in holographic fashion like you see it when you look around) of a planet, you only, ever, see these structures. but they are covered with a kind of hologram cloak which is sometimes really see through (moon, for instance) and sometimes less see through (Saturn, Jupiter and alike). this hologram cloak could be a representation of the surface when you would be inside the dome/sphere. This would make sense but can as of now not be answered definitively.

    That is, all you see when you look through a telescope or high zoom camera is a product of the earth’s dome motherboard. A representation of that which should be outside of the dome.

    It is thereby possible that all the measurements (temperatures, scale, atmosphere and so on) that the space agencies have conducted are information from the real one’s outside of the earth dome/sphere. That is, when you take measurements of the duplicate planets and such, they receive channelled/filtered through data that originates from the duplicate in outer space. The earth dome channels through this information, into the duplicate inside the dome/at the dome inward surface.

    It could also be, that this information is received from the higher dimensional originals (see above regarding the sun converter). So the small duplicates at the earth dome surface are picking up the information from their original and filter it through into the third dimension which then is measured by your scientists.

    Of course they could have made it all up, like they normally like to do (big bang hoax, moon landing hoax, mars probes hoax, voyager hoax, satellite hoax, ISS hoax, gravity hoax and so forth).

    Essentially (to fit it into a bigger picture) the third density where you are located in right now is a computer like simulation that originates from the beyond/soul realms. The experience you have is a very elaborate consciousness simulation that souls use to learn and progress. It is projected from afterlife type realms but also connected to the other dimensions inside the universe simulation.

    This is the reason why planets and solar bodies and so forth are “super computers” that create digital virtual realities that are holographically processed and visualized such as sensed. They are basically “soul technology”. Very elaborate, very illusive, very “real” looking, but it is a simulation, or a video game or holographic movie, whatever resonates most with you.

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  6. David L. says:

    Yes, if the mappers wanted to show convexity, then they would have used barrel distortion on the lat/long lines. Note that they used pin-cushion distortion which indicates concavity.

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    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      As Julius Caesar was once supposed to have said: “Men willingly believe what they wish.”

      That’s why I’m doing a concave Earth questions article. I’ve nearly finished it. Just adding to the “other candidate” for gravity and fill out some ideas for why they are hiding CET. A lot of people need help, or a mental framework as to how things could work in another model before accepting any empirical or scientific evidence.

      It is a huge stumbling block, which Caesar recognized. People are people though. I’d do my thing whether I was alone in the world or surrounded by billions. It’s really a selfish desire I have to find out what is going on, at least to a certain level of understanding.

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    • Observer says:

      Here is an interesting theory: that reality changes depending on what the humans are thinking:

      The theory starts with the following understanding, and understanding which doesn’t focus so much on the fact that humans were genetically engineered by higher beings, but zooms out to the ultimate big picture of “Yes, and what created them, and what created them, and at the very very very beginning, what was the original consciousness which created all of creation” so either way, whatever the shape of the environment we live in, this theory begins with the understanding that creator’s body is what we are living in and what we consist of, thus, just as an ocean containing life should itself be recognized “a living ocean”, so too ALL OF EXISTENCE ITSELF should be recognized as “a living environment”, and thus no living being inside this living environment should foolishly think that one is separate from the creator. All of creation is just parts of the creator, swimming within the creator, so all is one, the creator created creation to interact with itself, and the more we realize this fact, the more we are actually able to function harmoniously for the benefit of all existence, like a huge body in which the parts are no longer fighting each other and seeing each other as competition, all of the parts move towards realizing that the most benefit for all comes from all parts working together in harmony, synergistic cooperation style, to do whatever it is the whole wills, which means basically to align one’s own will with the will of all existence (existence being the creator, aka creation, aka all beings within creation) and that probably what the creator/creation really wills to do is to know itself more and more (and thus every living being is basically an information collector which, unconsciously during sleep passes all of its daily observations to the main overall whole living creator/creation existence-wide consciousness. Just as oil permeates the olive, so too this total consciousness permeates all of existence. Actually, that summary right there is put forth by me, OK, here comes the new theory which I just read which I want to share with you, because bear with me now, this is totally related to our convex vs concave question here:

      The theory which I just learned from “I see freely” (“ICFreely”) (one of the most intelligent folks over there at CluesForum) goes like this:

      The physical sector in which we happen to live flip flops back and forth between two very different states, these two states take turns being true, depending on… (drumroll please) … depending on what one happens to be thinking:

      A) if one is more sure about the creator’s existence, even more than one’s own existence, then suddenly the reality one lives in is: we humans really do live in a place where our home revolves around the sun, a state which is called geocentric.

      B) if one is more sure about one’s own existence, even more than the creator’s existence, then suddenly the reality one lives in is: we humans really do live in a place where the sun revolves around our home, a state which is called geocentric.

      I recommend everyone reads ICFreely’s post, it might be true, it might be false, but either way, it is a very interesting “both camps are right” statement.

      The one correction I want to make, is that I think the “B” option above is being misinterpreted. The “B” option, when read with the concave understanding, can be seen as saying, “B) if one is more sure about one’s own existence, even more than the creator’s existence, then suddenly the reality one lives in is: we humans really do live in a place where THE SUN REVOLVES AROUND INSIDE OUR CONCAVE HOME, a state which we call Concave Earth.”

      OK, actually, I don’t mean to imply that the concave earth reality sprouts from not recognizing the creator.

      What I’m trying to say is that perhaps there are two states: convex and concave, and that we actually flip-flop back and forth between each depending on what we vibe we are currently resonating with.

      And on that note, here is a very interesting page which I discovered last night as well:

      Enjoy! :-)

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      • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

        I personally think the core tenets of reality are unchangeable. If I click the heels of my ruby slippers together three times and shut my eyes repeating the words “the earth is flat, the earth is flat, the earth is flat”, when I open them again will the Earth become flat so that I can finally fly from Australia to New Zealand in 15 hours, or see the Sun move as it should on a flat earth? No. The basic observations always stay the same. The sun rises and sets in roughly the same position each year, I don’t float up to the center of the Earth cavity etc.

        I will say that reality is flexible however, but I don’t think it is 100% subjective so that anybody’s opinions can be and are 100% correct. If unbelievers carry out the laser experiment and find that the earth is concave, then that “all of reality is 100% subjective” theory can be thrown away. Otherwise we may as well hang up our boots and join Einstein or Newton in their thought experiments.

        It’s quite a simple thing to try out. Take three people – one hardcore atheist heliocentric mainstream thumping troll, one hardcore flat earth fundamentalist, and Steven Christopher. Each of them have to perform the exact same laser experiment with the exact same equipment at the exact same location. One carries it out on Monday, another Tuesday, and another Wednesday, each day at 12pm. If each person gets the results that they like, i.e atheist gets a measurement for a convex Earth, flat earther gets a flat earth etc. then the theory that reality is subjective and purely based on belief is a very good one and that the macro world is the same as quantum theory describing the supposed flip-flopping micro world. If however, the results are the exact same, then reality has an external program to it which defies opinion, expectation and beliefs. This is essentially what science is, repeatable experiments. This is of course not to say that the external program cannot be influenced by other external practices (magick), but these practices are more scientific in nature and they would be taught from person to person, i.e. the variables don’t change, i.e. if I do A+B, then C always happens.

        I’ve been reading off and on about the mandela effect for a few years now. Glitches in the matrix at reddit is even better and more varied in possibilities and ideas. Sure, the external program isn’t always perfect or runs smoothly (one possible explanation for glitches), but that is not to say that the external program doesn’t exist and just by changing my opinion will all the results of my experiments now change accordingly.

        The next question is why the macro is different to the micro? Is it because of poor interpretation of the micro, or the fact that the external program is more flexible with the micro due to its size and essence?

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        • Observer says:

          Yes, you’re right WH, one person simply thinking something doesn’t suddenly change the environment, no matter how much one might try, I agree with you there. If positive thinking really worked miracles, I would be enjoying a huge field of high-CBD green by now. So yeah, sorry it seemed I was implying the ruby slipper click-click path was possible.

          I guess the post which ICFreely was sharing (not written by him, he was just sharing what some guy shared in a Stanford lecture, and ICFreely still hasn’t explained whether he agrees with that flip-flop theory or if he disagrees with it) was basically saying that if ALL (or perhaps a strong majority) a majority of the beings in a certain sector of existence (for example, the beings here within this 12,756km diameter hole in the rock here) were to mentally “vote” in a high enough percentage toward one a certain vibe, that then, in that case, it would be enough to flip the sector from concave to convex, or vice versa.

          And, looking at my post above, I see I stupidly made another silly typo again (damn it, just like back when I was mixing up the suffixes -cave and -vex, haha, and Simon used that as an excuse to ban me from posting any more concave earth points at Clues Forum, haha) the “A” option paragraph I just wrote above obviously should have ended with the word “heliocentric”, not “geocentric.”

          I guess what I was really trying to say above is, look at this sentence here, from ICFreely’s post:

          “Modern science clearly teaches that the earth is actually revolving around the sun, the solar system being heliocentric, whereas in the Torah the universe is considered geocentric, with all the heavenly bodies, the sun, the stars and the moon revolving around the earth, but… the ultimate Torah experts say we that both are true: we flip-flop back and forth between both states depending on humanity’s vibe.”

          Well, I’m proposing an interesting possibility that modern folks (like the person who gave that Stanford lecture in the ICFreely link above) might be slightly misinterpreting what the Torah actually said about this, and that the paragraph could be rewritten as follows:

          “Modern science clearly teaches that the earth is actually revolving around the sun, the solar system being heliocentric, whereas in the Torah the universe is considered ConCAVE, with all the heavenly bodies, the sun, the stars and the moon revolving around *INSIDE* the earth, but… the ultimate Torah experts say we that both are true: we flip-flop back and forth between both states depending on humanity’s vibe.”

          So to make it even simpler, perhaps “convex heliocentric vs. convex geocentric… it’s both” as mentioned in the Torah was really trying to say, “convex heliocentric vs. ConCAVE… it’s both.”

          So the first point I wanted to make above, about the “isn’t this ‘both’ answer interesting, I understand, you’re not buying that. That’s fine, I’m not attached to it, I just wanted to throw that possibility out there.

          The next point I’m making there, is that people who assume the earth is convex (almost everyone nowadays), when interpreting old texts, always ASSUME that the old texts were talking about “flat OR convex geocentric OR convex heliocentric”, but the folks here can see that many of the old texts (just like the old maps Karol & Donald and you have shared) really are talking about ConCAVE.

          For example, in that post by ICFreely mentioned above, the modern Rabbi thinks Psalms 24 is talking about a convex world, when it says, ‘To GOD is the earth (ha’aretz) and all that fills it…’ but to me that sentence is obviously talking about conCAVITY because it’s saying “…all that FILLS the conCAVITY of the Earth.” I mean to me that sentence only makes sense if interpret, unless you’re talking about filling the ConCAVE Earth cavity.

          Now, next point, separate yet concurrently related, the reason I suddenly last night became open to the possibility of reality being changeable (please forgive my sudden far-out-ness) is because right before reading ICFreely’s post I somehow found that “Mandela Effect” site, which really blew my mind.

          The “M.E.” site blew my mind and opened me up to accepting the possibility of “changeable reality”, or “dimension jumping” because of the following points, I wonder if any of these apply to you:

          I happen to remember Berenstein Bears vividly from my childhood.
          If it had been STAIN, all of us kids would have made jokes about that.

          I happen to remember South America being directly south of Mexico.
          Now, suddenly I see I have jumped to a timeline in which Brazil is south of Maine!
          For some reason, totally contrary to my memory, there is absolutely nothing directly below Mexico.

          I also am quite sure New Zealand was slightly NORTH-east of Australia, Australia was NOT so close to Indonesia, Poland was not so HUGE as it is now, Baja did NOT have a huge scoop missing from its west coast, Alaska did NOT have huge scoops missing from its west coast, Russia was NOT a mere stone’s throw from Alaska, and Cuba was NOT a mere stone’s throw from Florida, and Cuba itself was NOT so HUGE, and Madagascar was a tiny uninhabited island, not a HUGE island which reportedly has over 22 Million residents, all of these little changes don’t match my memory.

          I remember Peanuts was created by Charles M. Shultz, not Charles M. Shulz.

          I remember “Mirror, Mirror, on the wall…”, not “Magic Mirror on the wall.”

          I remember “It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood…”, not “It’s a beautiful day in this neighborhood…”

          I also vividly remember that Holbein-style painting of King Henry the VIII holding a huge turkey leg with a bite already taken out of it, but now here I am in a timeline in which that painting never actually existed.

          So yeah, this “Reality has somehow changed, for some folks at least” theory being proposed might be a clever psy-op to fool me into looking foolish, thus tarnishing the image of whatever I am interested in (Media Fakery + Concave Earth) but if so, they sure have done a good job at fooling me, because: I’m kinda’ convinced that somehow (maybe due to a car accident which would have resulted in my death) maybe my soul (and many other folks as well) somehow jumped into a 99%-similar but 1%-different dimension. Maybe people do jump a lot. Maybe half of the folks in any given universe are “native”, and maybe half have jumped from different universes. And of those who have jumped, many don’t notice the slight difference, but some do.

          Which is why, it seemed like an interesting synchronicity that immediately after spending all last night awake reading about and thinking about the possibility of dimension jumping, suddenly today I see a new post by ICFreely in which someone is bringing up the possibility of “dimension jumping between convex heliocentric to convex geocentric, and vice versa” so I just wanted to point out that an even BETTER remix of that Rabbi’s theory would be “dimension jumping between convex heliocentric to conCAVE, and vice versa.”

          The idiots who keep claiming they are living on the outside of a convex ball (haha), or living on the top of a pizza (haha), maybe those folks really ARE living in such dimensions.

          Meanwhile, here I am, quite confidently living in the conCAVE earth dimension, in which space is tiny, and meanwhile those conVEXers are so absolutely sure about their space being vast and huge… maybe each of us really does live in a different dimension/matrix/holodeck/dream/trip/VirtualRealityProgram, even though we somehow are able to interact with each other face to face and online.

          Oh yeah, final point for today, do heliocentric convex supporters really know how frickin’ crazy the belief system they hold is?

          #1. A person standing standing at the equator is moving in a counter-clockwise rotation at a speed of 1,037 mph.

          #2. Meanwhile, the earth is moving in a counter-clockwise revolution around the sun at a speed of 66,666 mph.

          #3. The next factor is the sun (with the solar system) is moving in a northward direction at a speed of 420,000 mph.
          This is the point which most heliocentric folks don’t realize is part of the heliocentric package: the fact that the sun is flying around!
          And since factors #2 and #3 are happening at the same time, the earth is thus moving in a helical motion (like a curly telephone wire.)

          #4. And now all the heliocentric theorists have to take that whole package described above, and turn it 90 degrees sideways:

          because although from Earth’s perspective the sun is moving “north”, from the perspective of someone floating far far away,
          looking at the frisbee called the milky way galaxy, with the frisbee being seen in a horizontal position of course, not vertical,
          the sun is moving in a counter-clockwise revolution around the milky way. And now get this, the milky way is moving “upward”:
          (this “upward” direction simply means “away from the initial point where all of this matter exploded out from in the big bang”.)
          And thus, since factors #3 and #4 are concurrent, our galaxy is also moving in a helical motion (again, like a curly telephone wire.)
          OK, so the milky way galaxy is moving away from “the big bang center birthplace of all matter” at a speed of about 2,237,000 mph.

          So a person on the equator is traveling through space, from the ‘big bang’ center
          (in a helix motion, which is in a helix motion, which is in a helix motion)
          at the speed of 1000+66,666+420,000+2,237,000 = 2,724,666mph!

          So, convexers are either living in a universe in which their bodies are traveling 2,724,666 mph… wow.

          Or, and this is just a possibility here, maybe the simplest explanation is that convexers are simply… wrong.

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          • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

            I’ll read the mandela stuff later, but my opinion on that Standford lecture is that there is a conflict in the “Jewish” community as to whether their religious texts say helio or geocentric. The Torah (old testament) says geocentric, the Kabbala says heliocentric. Oh no! How can we resolve this? I know, let’s say it is both and it is just a matter of perspective. lol. Or, forget your religions and start doing some science to find out for sure. If they did the science, they would find that it is concave and then they can argue about perspective or use common sense and logic for further speculation, whether the Earth is spinning or it is the Sun etc.

            There is no dimension jumping between convex and concave and flat pizza. The different properties of all three models are far too vast and drastic. You would notice them for sure. A 93 million mile away Sun versus possibly 6000 miles, different sun paths and southern hemisphere flight times for flat earth etc. No, the observational evidence is far too consistent as far as I have seen and read. Iron meteorites don’t suddenly go from an iron-nickel alloy to a ball of helium/hydrogen gas depending on what dimension I am in. If there was a ton of individual subjective experiences like this validating the three models, I could agree, but there isn’t. The core model is immutable. The rest is up for grabs.

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          • Observer says:

            Yeah, you’re right again, I think I was almost pulled away from reality, thanks for bringing me back.

            That site is simply listing the top things that humans have faulty memories about, and making people think “Yeah, yeah, other people’s memories match mine, so this isn’t just a case of faulty memories, we must have JUMPED TO ANOTHER DIMENSION!” craziness.

            And if one accepts that idea, then suddenly one starts thinking that nothing is real, that reality is highly mutable, and… the end result will be not being sure of anything since “Well, we keep jumping around to varying universes, each universe being different, so nothing can really be said for sure about reality.”

            And then that Torah lecturer’s words coincidentally were placed in front of me the next day, with a similar theme of, “We jump back and forth between this universe and another universe…” which (in my grogginess from having stayed up the entire previous night contemplating my childhood memories) I stupidly thought, Yeah, reading about the M.E. multi-universe theory, and now this Torah multi-universe theory, one right after another, this must be synchronicity, this must be a sign that this the multi-universe theory is right!

            Yeah, I think the rulers would love for this idea to get popular, because it sends thinkers off into some meaningless realm of “Nothing is real, we are not in reality, why even bother trying to figure anything out, it’s just going to change mysteriously, we’re just going to get sent to some other universe again next week, so no need to contemplate the details of the environment we are living in right here right now…”

            Thanks for helping to bring me back. I’m gonna’ take a break from typing posts for awhile.

            Before I go, a totally unrelated question, but something I’m curious about: do you happen to have red hair WH?

            [My totally racist theory is that folks with red hair have a slightly higher-than-average ability to observe reality slightly more-clearly than most…]

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          • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

            haha. Do I have red hair? No not really. I have red haired ancestors in places but that’s it. My hair is darkish brown (what I have left lol). I do have red hair in my beard (if I were to grow a beard) and eyebrows.

            You’ll like my next article, as the last question as to why they could be hiding the concave Earth is really long, speculative and philosophical with glitch examples and other interesting reads thrown in.

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  7. Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

    I have updated the concave earth article. It is ten pages long and mentions 3 experiments for you to try out (not 4). The rectilineator, tamarack Mines and 19th century balloon observations have not really changed. I’ve added the “falling object” effect to Tamarack Mines, Steve’s video and redoing of the rectilineator experiment and my own conclusion to the balloon observations.

    The indirect evidence is newly written, but has taken a lot from the horizon and bendy light articles. All the maths is included.

    This is now a great basis for further experiments which can link to this article. I hope you like it.

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  8. Observer says:

    I recently added one more little piece to my mental painting of our environment:
    The “Earth is expanding” concept WORKS within the Concave Earth understanding.

    Meaning, smart folks have realized the jigsaw continent pieces show the earth is expanding.
    Before coming to the concave earth understanding, I knew this expansion makes sense.

    This expansion is what causes the large spaces between the continents which we see now.
    Whether a convex-er, or a concave-er, the continent shapes prove they once were one.
    NOT “Fake Pangea: surrounded by water, with assumption of constant diameter.”
    Instead, “Real Pangea: one land, back when Earth’s diameter was much much smaller.”

    So now, I see that expansion understanding meshes well with the concave earth understanding.
    This hole in the rock, this hollow space, the concave earth, started out much SMALLER.

    The pressure which starts at the center and pushes outward in all directions (aka “gravity”)
    is thus, continuously over time, making the concave earth hollow space LARGER every year.

    So currently the hollow space within the concave earth has a diameter of about 12,742km.
    This additional “expansion” theory simply says the diameter previously was LESS.

    The initial size was so small that all of the continents were fused together as one land.
    As the “gravity” pressure from the center pushed outward, the diameter increased.

    Anyway, my current mental description combines Concave Earth with Expanding Earth.
    Just like “100km Glass”, this “Expanding Earth” detail is NOT a vital part of the Concave Earth.

    The fact that we live INSIDE a spherical space, the Concave Earth. is the main vital fact to realize.
    All of the other details (like glass, expansion, etc) are mere details tempting endless debates.

    Like the “Mason/Jesuit/Ashkenazi/Aryan/RhNegative/Alien/ParasiticSpirit” problem.
    The fact is that ALL beings exist by parasitically stealing energy from other beings to live.
    Even a vegetarian like myself is constantly killing plant beings for all my selfish activities.
    Some groups of beings are conspiring more ruthlessly, more effectively, than other groups.
    As somebody born with Ashkenazi+Basque+Celt+Aryan DNA, I know my evil ego is strong.
    All humans carry this “horizontal-transfer” of alien DNA injection, some simply carry more.
    If my spirit had been born into a blacker body, I could proudly claim to carry LESS evil DNA.
    But even then, even as a rare black-as-night human, I would STILL carry a tiny amount of it.

    So, in whatever body we are born in, the goal is to resist the parasitic programming we inherited.
    To resist the “kill others for energy, enslave others for energy” programming there in our DNA.
    And to resist the “produce fear (which feeds the parasitic spirits)” impulse in our mind programming.
    (Not vouching for that author, nor that site, simply vouching for the “Be Courageous” message)

    The SeptemberClues forum is united about the understanding that most “news” images/movies are computer generated.

    The WildHeretic forum is united about the understanding that we live INSIDE a spherical space called the Concave Earth.

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  9. Observer says:

    This is a good visual summary of nice solid points,
    attempting to convince the reader of a “flat-earth”,
    some of the points are useful for those who realize
    that we are actually living inside the Concave Earth.

    For example, the angle of rays peeking from clouds,
    which instantly proves the “sun is far” belief is false.

    To view the above photo easily, start on the top left,
    scroll down, then move a little to the right, & repeat.
    A long skinny presentation would have been better. :-)

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    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      Thanks for that. The new CET article should be ready by this time next week or sooner. I’ve added 4 do-it-yourself experiment instructions to help people do it themselves to find out what the story is. The article will be 10 pages but on one link (the same one it is on now) and is the most thorough to date.

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      • Observer says:

        Wow! One link, with 10 pages, thorough, new, including 4 self-experiments (SELF-experiments being the real definition of science) all sounds great, looking forward to it! :-)

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        • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

          Yes, it is time to bring this to the next stage of development. I haven’t added much to the Tamarack mines and rectilineator parts, just a little about steve’s video and his current repetition of the experiment. With TM I’ve just added a small bit about the falling objects effect.

          If nobody else does the experiments, I know that I definitely will at some near stage in the future. I know where to do them in my locale and know what equipment to get. I don’t know the absolute practical details in one of them, but these experiments are nice and simple and will prove once and for all the arguments put forward… or not 😉 haha.


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    • Observer says:

      The same image, but this time without accidental shrinkage. :-)

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  10. Observer says:

    A goldmine of information being is in the link which I am about to share, a link which I found 30 minutes ago, first I would like to describe it as well as to describe my current understanding of reality.

    The website I am about to share, contains some interesting admittances which are very interesting to the readers who are able to view these sentences from the correct perspective of “we are living within the concave earth and thus ‘space’ is merely the 12,700 diameter ball of non-vast, surprisingly-tiny, space existing WITHIN the concave earth.”

    This website which I am about to share, thus contains sentences which begrudgingly and/or accidentally provide evidence of the concave earth understanding, and yet at the same time, to avoid being led into a fantasy falsehood, one must remember that this website contains there many, many, many purposeful and accidental phrases of misinformation and disinformation, claims which to the uncritical reader gives a false impression of reality.

    So to summarize this website which I am about to share, it is a website which contains “the official story”, and thus contains both embarrassing facts which they have been forced to admit due to the few awake researchers who have publicized what the actual human senses notice when the brain is actually turned on and actually reporting relatively correctly to the rest of humans what is actually being sensed from first hand sensing (a rare action indeed, for most humans, for most of the time) while concurrently this website which I am about to share contains many mistakes and lies, which, as mentioned already, is very interesting (to me, at least) to read while mentally noticing and mentally correcting the various false impressions which this entire collection of words imply (both purposefully by the higher authors who know the concave earth reality, and accidentally by the lower authors who actually believe the convex earth falsehood.)

    Basically, we here at WildHeretic’s site, are about to disect and analyze the official cannon of the convex earth belief system claims, a hundred-thousand-phrase collection of claims meant to support the huge grandest hoax of all: the hoax that we are living on the outside of a ball and thus surrounded by vast space. That grandest hoax is meant to hide the fact that we are living on the INSIDE of a ball, that space is tiny and surrounded by earth, and that earth is thus surrounded by vast amounts of rock, with the absolute possibility and high probability of tunnels existing, tunnels leading from here (this little 12,700km diameter bubble of air existing within the vast rock, a bubble which we call earth) to other locations far away (other little XX,XXXkm diameter bubbles of air existing in other locations within the vast rock, bubbles which could be rightly defined as “the place where the older, more technologically advanced beings, came through one (or more) tunnels long ago, entered this bubble known as earth through holes in the earth, created what we now call ‘humans’ (ourselves) through genetic splicing and genetic manipulation, and then set up this lamp that moves/rotates around within the concave earth, a lamp which we ‘humans’ now call ‘the sun’ as well as other things which move around, like the thing which we call ‘the moon.’)

    And let’s remember that if the lamp was created and placed in the center (or the semi-center, either way) of our 12,700km bubble of space which we call earth, then probably before the arrival of these lamp-placing energy parasites (parasitic in the physical labor sense, and in the physical food source sense, and in the vibrational “loosh” energy source (the energy produced by your brain and body while existing, energy which increases and decreases and changes in vibrational character depending on the “thoughts” and “feelings” that each being is pumping out during each moment of its existance, energy which most beings assume are NOT being absorbed by ‘higher beings’ but quite possible COULD be one of the three sources of energy which the creators of the lamp, as mentioned above, parasitically feed off of, in this concave loosh farm they set up, which we, the almost entirely non-cognizant sources of labor/meat/vibration live inside of every day.

    Probably, in our original form (and in this sentence “our original form is defined as “the form which our ancestors happened to have BEFORE our line of procreation was subjected to the first act of genetic splicing and genetic modification”) in that original form we were probably darkness-living / darkness-loving / darkness-thriving beings (since, before the lamp makers arrived through the tunnel(s) which lead to their bubble(s) in the vast rock which really is the substance of the actual reality in which our bubbles respectively sit (unspinning, of course, simply bubbles of space interspersed within vast rock, swiss cheese is the best image analogy to create a mental picture of this reality.)

    So, before the lamp arrived, we darkness-dwelling mammals produced each day, via the chemical factory located within the very center of our brains, a chemical factory called the pineal gland, a LOT more DMT each day, since darkness is what tells the body to produce more DMT, and light is what tells our body to produce less DMT. So before the lamp-placers came and placed their lamp circulating within this bubble (leaving periods of vital darkness every 24 hours so that we DMT producers can still get a tiny daily amount of unconscious DMT production time which we now call ‘sleep’ and ‘dreaming.’

    So anyway, this website I am about to share contains the official collection of claims which are currently used to support the granest hoax ever performed: the hoax of us NOT living within a loosh farm, a loosh farm set up by more technilogically advanced parasitic energy consumers which we would call ‘aliens from space’ except they are not from space (wince space is small) they are from far away spaces in far away parts of the huge rock swiss cheese actual universe.

    Here, just to whet your appetite, are just two sentences from this treasure chest of sentences: “At an altitude of approximately 100 miles (160 km) the sky is totally black. Stars do flicker and the area between stars is black since there is not enough air to scatter light rays.” –

    Alright, here is the treasure chest I have been waving around in a teasing fashion for the past many paragraphs, here it is, enjoy:

    View Comment
  11. karol says:

    Two private experiments confirming Concave Earth. Cheap and easy to do.

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    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      Thanks karol. I noticed what you posted on truthseeker and had to add the ferry one to the horizon article. I’ll be doing this experiment myself sometime in the future when I get a zoom camera and extension. I have an ideal place to so in Ireland. Looking forward to that.

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  12. Steve Christopher says:

    WH, can you come to South Padre Island? I can provide housing for you and yours. I am about to re-conduct the Rectilineator and would like your expertise. Let me know via email or facebook.

    View Comment
    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      Steve, I was thinking of you yesterday having to do that experiment alone which is daunting for anyone. If I was in the locale I would be there like a shot, but there is no way for me to be there as I live in the Republic of Ireland and my wife works as a teacher (she isn’t interested in the concave earth and is working at this time of year).

      I’m a newbie to this too, but if you have any questions at all then we can chat and hopefully we can work things out. I need to get skype and give you an address. I’ll type the address in this comment when I have it.


      On the positive side, I will be visiting a place regularly in Wexford Ireland from now on which has an ideal beach and pennisula 30 miles away to take horizon readings with a telescopic lens. Wexford has some great beaches and a ferry harbour too. I’ll just have to get the camera. I saw the x60 Panasonic one and a x4.5 attachment which was pretty cheap. The quality of the photo with the cheap x4.5 attachment will be shit, but that’s fine. I’m only be doing it for the horizon. That’s what I have in mind for the future at least.

      EDIT: Steve, my Skype username is “wildheretic”. Call me anytime you see me online if you want.

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  13. dan says:

    The Gofast Amateur Rocket proves zetetic flat earth. It launches over Nevada on July 14th 2014, 7:30AM and witnesses the full moon over Australia high over the horizon.

    The heliocentric establishment holds that it should have only been 9% visible over the horizon.

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    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      I saw that argument on Youtube. To be honest I wasn’t sure either way.

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      • dan says:

        It is my understanding that the concave model is trying to framework the heliocentric.

        That’s what I get from Stephen Christ’s material anyway. If that’s the case then this rocket launch would dispel that.

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        • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

          The night sky is tricky because we have to make sure the observational data is correct to start off with. I don’t think I have heard anyone argue against the accuracy of Stellarium yet, so maybe software like that is pretty reliable. It’s tough with the illusion that bending light gives also.

          I haven’t really looked at the planets so I couldn’t comment on that.

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      • Alex Fresh says:

        The Earth is invariably flat and light bends upwards as it extends away and falls below the vanishing point of the perspective vision as it comes toward the observer.

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  14. What a bunch lovely open minded folk.
    A true Platonic Cyber Symposium dedicated to the trapping the truth with reasons Gambit, and not a bunch of people dogmatically preaching unassailable fallacies or truths, who usually miss the point entirely, and always omitting the Stone the builders forgot that Heisenberg and Bohrs so artfully reminded us of.
    Very impressive, and joy to behold.It actually gave me hope compared to usually prevalent venom spitting. I don’t know if you guys a right or not when it comes to this subject, but I know quality people when I see them.

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  15. trigun says:

    Scripture don’t agree with another concave sphere so it has to be convex surface.
    Philippians 2:10 – So that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth
    We would be those “under the earth” while those “on earth” would mean those on convex surface of earth.

    I think this will solve the mystery behind 24/7 light of the hollow earth said in The Smoky God book.
    Surely you have read Etidorhpa book which talks about what is called “soft white light” with no apparent source William Morgan and his guide the eyeless being encountered starting 25 miles below the surface.
    Joseph Cater in his book The Ultimate Reality says that light/radiation from the Sun not only is reflected by the Earths crust but also continues to penetrates Earths crust. Even Etidorhpa talks about this if i remember right. Joseph Caters says that soft electron disintegration is what causes that soft white light. It will continue to penetrate until it is out on the convex side and illuminate convex surface from all sides at the same time leaving no place for night so even if there happens to be reddish smoky sun, there will be no night. Joseph Cater is hollow earth believer but you can just invert the diagram in the image and think instead of soft electron sun, its concave soft electron layer above the convex surface illuminating that world, no shadows will exist on convex side.
    Beyond that would be the bottomless pit or void/hell if there really are no other outer stars or planets.

    View Comment
    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      That is a plausible interpretation of that passage. I always interpreted “under the earth” meaning the underworld, but your interpretation is equally valid.
      I think in the KJB there is an even 50% spread of “in earth” and “on earth”. I don’t know if this is because of the different level of knowledge of the many authors, or mistranslations or not. In other words, I don’t know the legitimacy of “in heaven and on earth and under the earth”. Should it read “in heaven and in earth and under the earth”; or perhaps “in heaven and on earth and in the earth”?

      That is why the bible for me is such a hot potato.

      The soft diffuse light as the source of light for the “other side” of the Earth sounds ok, but I don’t believe that is how the Smokey God pair described how the other side was illuminated. If our Sun is illuminated their side with soft light, then is their smokey purplish Sun diffusing our side with its light? Thinking on a slightly different tact, perhaps the “other side” is more spirit like and has its own luminescence, like a dream world, which emanates not from penetrating sunlight necessarily, but from “matter” itself?

      I remember the caverns in Etidorpha being illuminated by soft light, but I can’t remember if they mentioned the source. I assumed it was self luminescence, which points more towards the spirit/dream state of being I think. I recall that gravity became less, until it was zero at one point. My take on that was that the telluric currents (originally emanating from the Sun) can’t penetrated that far down.

      I quite like the idea of soft electron disintegration. Could it be perhaps that there is less of that here due to the magnetic h-field in the Earth cavity which would hold everything together. Less magnetic “glue”, more leakage – hence more spirit and malleable shapes? Could it be that the “solidity” of our material world relies on its distance from the h-field? That brings up the other point. In the amazon jungle tale, the Indians also experienced the same less, then zero gravity when venturing downwards. However, after the halfway point, gravity got stronger again as they got closer to the other world. Eitdorpha experienced pure spirit instead. Could it be that there are only certain underground portals or tunnel systems to the other world (the holes near the poles being two of them). I think that is why I thought of the nerve cell idea. It is unformed aether or spirit (or soft electrons) which surround the concave Earth – the analogy is the watery solution outside the brain cell. But some paths lead to another brain cell – some tunnels lead to the other world. It’s just an idea.


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      • trigun says:

        It makes more sense to me that Suns light/radiation penetrated throught earths crust and became soft light that evenly illuminates the deep caverns and outer earth to the point that no shadow will exist. If earth were to be viewed from the outer side space, it will look like the star. You should read The Ultimate Reality by Joseph Cater to know more about science behind this soft light/soft electron. This soft lights frequency is very close to the gravity or ether so it radily penetrates the solid matter. The smoky sun is reddish not purplish and is seen after going through the poles deep enough, i am also thinking that this sun may be artificial or this is where God sent the sinned angels, that reddish sun could be hell.
        The outer side of earth is definitely physical as the sanskrit speaking people have visited our side many times.

        They said soft light had no apparent source and later explained the source of light if i remember correctly. The soft light penetrates all the way through as it is etheric like the ether.

        Etidorhpa didn’t experience pure spirit, William Morgan was taught to have full control over matter so he can become a spirit or flesh at will. Outer earth is also the source of freemasons occult knowledge aparently.

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        • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

          It makes more sense to me that Suns light/radiation penetrated throught earths crust and became soft light that evenly illuminates the deep caverns and outer earth to the point that no shadow will exist.

          Wouldn’t it make more sense that the Sun’s radiations are mostly not penetrating 25 miles deep? Otherwise wouldn’t we see soft visible light in a shallow cave rather than pitch black? Are these soft electrons merely the infra red spectrum in the shallow cave, which transform into the visible light frequencies further down? Possible I guess. Would it fit in with Carter’s theory of gravity being radiations in the low infrared spectrum? If this spectrum is transformed to a higher one such as visible light, maybe gravity as an effect ceases to exist? I don’t know to be honest.

          EDIT: Been thinking about this. Here is a stab in the dark theory: The negatively charged field moving up from the crust (after being charged by the Sun due to lightning strikes) would be Carter’s “soft electrons”. These soft electrons radiate light in the infra-red spectrum (including the very low infrared “Carter gravity” frequencies), hence we can use infra-red goggles to see in the dark. Now the further we go through the crust, the less charge reaches these depths. This means there is less positive current flow pushing downwards at these depths. Also, we are further from the h-field keeping the Earth together. The charge that is getting through excited the rock more because it’s atoms are more free to move about (vibrate) hence the soft electrons emit the visible light frequency. Hence gravity is not radiations in the low infra-red but rather those radiations are the effects of the positively charged telluric currents (gravity) and the strength of the magnetic h-field on matter. It is the positively charged telluric currents which is the real origin of gravity.

          The above is only an idea. I’d have to look into the zero g effect in Etidorpha to see if the soft glow was more visible or not, so as to amend this idea. For example, maybe the h-field is the primary determining factor and the charge travels right the way through the crust. This means that the positive telluric currents are approximately equally strong at great depths than at the surface, but matter is more free to move and vibrate at depth (further away from the Earth’s magnetic h-field and center; and also thick rock may dampen the field too) hence matter becomes “lighter” and whose soft electrons now emit visible light. Sounds better to me. Could be a mixture of both.

          The outer side of earth is definitely physical as the sanskrit speaking people have visited our side many times.

          Everything is “physical” in that sense. What piqued my interest is when one of the giants, which the Indians met on the “other side”, said that the returning Indians could meet the giants again in their giant world when the Indians were deceased in our world. This means there is a non-physical connection that doesn’t easily exist here. This points to spirit merely being that which is not or less affected by our Earth cavity’s h-field (magnetism). When they enter our world, they too become “physical” as they are subject to our h-field, just as we would be subjected to their environment if we entered their world. There have been plenty of anecdotal evidence of deceased people saying goodbye in the “physical” to loved ones. One involved a friend of mine and his family. Is it that this alive person is more in tune with the spirit? Perhaps. Or is it that the spirit can “tune down” more to the “physical”, like the story teller in Etidorpha BTW.

          This leads on to the giants in the bible. Some giants could well have come from this other world, and then in the post flood environment shrunk to our size in successive generations. This means that some of those giants could well be us. And vice verse if we went to their world. The Indians that stayed on the giant’s world grew to a size in between their previous Earth size and those of the giants. Perhaps their future generations became giant size.


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        • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

          Etidorhpa didn’t experience pure spirit, William Morgan was taught to have full control over matter so he can become a spirit or flesh at will.

          I think I remember him saying something to the effect of he was between spirit and flesh. Even better. Sounds like a true “multi-dimensional” being who can visit many worlds. He doesn’t need a UFO vehicle for that. I have a suspicion that pre-flood cycles were closer to this level of reality (between spirit and flesh) hence the longer ages and giantism etc.

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    • Hebrew Logician says:

      To the contrary, the original untranslated text of Philippians 2 (in the ancient Greek) does not indicate a convex or concave earth. In fact, one could even argue that “under earth” actually refers to snakes and over organisms that dwell under the ground. As it is literally translated as “that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend — heavenly, and earthly, and underground.” Also, @Wild Heretic the reason that there is variation in the translations of Philippians 2:10 is because of the discrepancy in the original text.

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      • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

        Thanks for that explanation HL.

        It seems then that “heavenly” would mean sky, “earth” is ground, and “underground” is under the ground.

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        • sully says:

          Well, biblically there are three “heavens”, depending on the context where the same word is used: 1/clouds & sky; 2/stars & planets,etc. 3/ Heaven, as in where God dwells. This leads to a good bit of confusion.

          In the same way, there are three different greek words for love in the new testament, all different in meaning but all translated into English as simply “love”.

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          • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

            I’ve noticed that is a main issue with biblical translations. I’ve read that it is even worse for the word “God”… far far worse. In fact, there were so many words for “God” that quite a few translators and authors blame the original translators for deliberately putting a heavy monotheistic slant on stories which related to plural beings – because of the religion they were promoting.

            It really has made a big mess of things.

            I had two jehovas witnesses come round today. Nice intelligent ladies, but it didn’t take long to boil it down to this common denominator which these Christian sects seem to have in common. They assume/excuse/paper over three things: 1. The God in the bible refers to one being only the whole time. 2. the God in the bible is a good God who really cares for the well-being of humankind (which likely stems from a misunderstanding of point 1.). 3. The bible is the ultimate authority as it was written by God. I asked about this last point as I said it was written by people. They said yes, but written by people who had visions from God and so therefore it is “his” direct word. I said I respect the bible and believe that to a certain extent it is written history of a people, but not some higher spiritual ultimate authority. They put a “supernatural” blanket over the whole thing which as far as other dimensionality goes, is correct, but I find that viewpoint to be very primitive and puts God on a pedestal of ultimate being which is far from the descriptions in the bible. It hands over their own power and responsibility. In my understanding responsibility is love. The are giving away their love by falsely letting a person (God) do the loving for them (in their own heads). Thereby they denote their responsibility.

            I have come to realize that these are the three fundamental points where I differ from the fundie sects. Out of body experiences and visions are interesting but are the least reliable testimonies and observations and actually makes this other dimensional “God” rather suspect if anything else. This is not to say that some visions are correct, but scientific experiments come first, and visions last.

            Easy proof of the contradictory nature of visions is to take Teed and Steve’s vision or OBE of a concave Earth as true. But then I have read quite a few testimonies of NDEs who wanted to see the universe on death and said they saw countless planets with life on them and whooshed through the universe and galaxies and was filled with all knowledge of how everything worked and indescribable love which they cannot even remember properly.

            So which visions are true if we rely on this sort of evidence only? We can’t rely on them as they are polar opposites. We have to do scientific experiments to find what is true and what is not. It also makes me deeply suspicious about some OBEs and opens up the possibility that perhaps certain realms of the afterlife is one big emotional astral con job. (They say the astral realm is the emotional realm after all). What better way to mess with people who don’t know any better (ignorant). Who is going to question incredible indescribable selfless love? This game may be much bigger than we had first thought.


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  16. trigun says:

    This is intriguing. :)
    This guy says auroras are actually energy leaving earth.
    Same is said by hollow earthers that direction auroras is up not down.

    Now since we actually live inside the earth, what does that tell us?
    Right, energy is coming in from outside! :)

    This means that the inner sun smoky god book talks about is actually the outer sun earth actually orbits! Cause of auroras.
    So what if heliocentric model isn’t actually invalid, only invalid to us who live inside the earth?
    Heliocentric doctrine came from masonic occultists anyway and Etidorhpa book confirms masonic connection goes all the way to inner earths actually outer earth (convex side).

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    • Wild HereticWild Heretic says:

      Yeah, that was my first thought too regarding the hollow earth being the convex earth, but it doesn’t work with the Smokey God description. Does this mean that the book is really fiction or that the “outside” of the Earth isn’t the convex side as experienced when going through the pole holes?

      The problem lies in its contradiction with the entire smokey god world having constant daylight everywhere all the time, which means it can’t be convex, unless light is bending fully around… and yet they sail through the Earth’s north pole and come out its south.

      If both are true and light isn’t bending around fully then I can only resolve the contradiction by looking at the other world as also being concave and that the connection between the two is kind of another dimensional one, or vortexian portal; possibly like a synapse in a brain so that the two worlds are connected by two tunnels at both poles (a little bit like this

      … or perhaps that world is overlayed onto ours and the pole holes are one way to access it via “dimensional” portals so to speak, i.e. there is no here or there.


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  17. trigun says:

    WH, can you ask Steven Christopher to make a video named:
    “Top 10 Reasons We Know Why Earth is Concave”

    I think its very important to debunk this misleading video. :)
    If possible make it same way this video is made.

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