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Veganism

Absolutely anything which you think is bad for your physical, mental and emotional well being. Smart technology, microwaves, TV, mobile phones/pads, computers, GMOs, pesticides, herbicides, chipping, mind control, vaccination, drug side-effects, water "fluoridation" etc.
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Primalredemption
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Re: Veganism

Postby Primalredemption » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:52 pm

IrOnMaN wrote:
Primalredemption wrote:
Yeah eggs are an amazing food, incredibly nutritious and no life form has to die. I eat them raw occasionally


Millions of life forms die...


The only life forms involved in the eggs I eat that die are the slugs, worms and roaches that the chickens peck out of the ground, which could possibly be in the range of millions. But they would do this anyway. Do you know what happens to the eggs if no one eats them? They go rotten and explode, completely wasting the lives of all those bugs that went into producing them. By eating the eggs you are actually redeeming the chickens and not letting all those lives go to waste for nothing.



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IrOnMaN
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Re: Veganism

Postby IrOnMaN » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:54 pm

Primalredemption wrote:
IrOnMaN wrote:
Primalredemption wrote:
Yeah eggs are an amazing food, incredibly nutritious and no life form has to die. I eat them raw occasionally


Millions of life forms die...


The only life forms involved in the eggs I eat that die are the slugs, worms and roaches that the chickens peck out of the ground, which could possibly be in the range of millions. But they would do this anyway. Do you know what happens to the eggs if no one eats them? They go rotten and explode, completely wasting the lives of all those bugs that went into producing them. By eating the eggs you are actually redeeming the chickens and not letting all those lives go to waste for nothing.


I respectfully disagree...Which eggs are you referring to? The handful of eggs, a chick produces every year or the ones, who are produced by the millions, through genetic manipulation, slaughtering millions of baby chickens every year?

In any case, the fact that en egg will rot and explode has nothing to do with it being considered "food"... It's an egg similar to a woman's egg.. A life to be... Not food for us my friend... I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say here..
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Re: Veganism

Postby dmt » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:17 am

IrOnMaN wrote:Animals are not human FOOD, it is that simple.


Try going back a hundred years and tell that to the Inuit or any of the countless cultures who rely on it to live and where growing enough vegetables is not possible. Also the idea that meat causes cancer is debunked by the Inuit who live almost on meat and animal fat alone and have no cancer.

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IrOnMaN
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Re: Veganism

Postby IrOnMaN » Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:10 pm

dmt wrote:
IrOnMaN wrote:Animals are not human FOOD, it is that simple.


Try going back a hundred years and tell that to the Inuit or any of the countless cultures who rely on it to live and where growing enough vegetables is not possible. Also the idea that meat causes cancer is debunked by the Inuit who live almost on meat and animal fat alone and have no cancer.


That is a general statement... If they couldn't grow food from the soil, then they shouldn't have gone to the freezing cold in the first place.

The Inuit

Well known to consume significant amounts of whale and seal meat frequently, the Inuit are commonly construed to be heart disease-free. Is this another outlier to much of the other observational research finding low processed food, low animal, high plant diets to be associated with low heart disease death rates?

Some small studies do show that the Inuit eat a relatively lower carbohydrate diet. One study in Greenland in 1976[4] found they consumed about 37% of calories from carbohydrate. Other surveys of native populations found them to consume anywhere from 8 to 53% carbohydrate, the 53% number being noted in populations in the late 1930s. 53%, by the way, is more than was found to be consumed in Denmark in 1972(cited in 4). Certainly significant amounts of bread and sugar were consumed as long ago as 40-50 years ago, at least as documented by trading post activity[4].

What about their risk of heart disease? It turns out to be a myth so often repeated it just became an unsupported truth. A 2003 paper[5] published by a highly experienced, highly published scientist at the National Institute of Public Health in Greenland, written with his colleagues from Canada, documents many autopsy studies and clinical observations and studies proving that heart disease existed among the Inuit. In fact, in 1940 the “father of epidemiology” in Greenland, Bertelsen, noted heart disease to be quite common, perhaps even more interesting given the young age of the population. He based this on clinical experience and medical officer reports going back for many decades(cited in 5). All told, the 2003 paper found “the hypothesis that mortality from ischemic heart disease is low among the Inuit compared with western populations insufficiently founded.” Further, “…a general statement that mortality from cardiovascular disease is high among the Inuit seems more warranted than the opposite.”[5]

In addition, it has been found that bone health among the Inuit was quite bad. A 1974 study[6] found, “Aging bone loss, which occurs in many populations, has an earlier onset and greater intensity in the Eskimos. Nutrition factors of high protein, high nitrogen, high phosphorus, and low calcium intakes may be implicated.”

What do you make of these outliers? Are they outliers at all? There are valuable lessons to be learned from these indigenous groups, but what are the lessons? How do these observations change your beliefs and assumptions?

I find that this research at best raises more questions than it answers. It is remarkable to me that the legend of coronary health in the Inuit and Masai has been so widely repeated and accepted as evidence that the western all-meat diet is a good idea. Then again, this is further affirmation that we love to hear good things about our bad habits
.


http://nutritionstudies.org/masai-and-i ... oser-look/
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IgnobleLie
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Re: Veganism

Postby IgnobleLie » Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:28 pm

IrOnMaN wrote:http://nutritionstudies.org/masai-and-inuit-high-protein-diets-a-closer-look/


Thanks for the sourced rebuttal. Very interesting...
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Re: Veganism

Postby dmt » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:33 pm

IrOnMaN wrote:The Inuit

[size=85]
Some small studies do show that the Inuit eat a relatively lower carbohydrate diet. One study in Greenland in 1976[4] found they consumed about 37% of calories from carbohydrate. Other surveys of native populations found them to consume anywhere from 8 to 53% carbohydrate, the 53% number being noted in populations in the late 1930s. 53%, by the way, is more than was found to be consumed in Denmark in 1972(cited in 4). Certainly significant amounts of bread and sugar were consumed as long ago as 40-50 years ago, at least as documented by trading post activity[4].


Interesting... But these studies are on eskimos eating 37 - 53% carbohydrates. If you went back further this would not be the case as they literally ate no carbohydrates for 10 months of the year. So these studies don't prove the meat is causing the heart problems for these modern eskimos as their diet is already significantly different to their ancestors. Having ancestors who ate almost no carbohydrates I wonder if their bodies have a hard time with the 37% - 53% carbs with significant amounts of these from "bread and sugar"

You could be right however that there is some myth to the eskimos health as it may have been worse than I thought from my previous reading. But still they are testament to the fact that the human body can live on meat and fat alone and do fairly well. Also consider the harsh environment they lived through.

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Re: Veganism

Postby lingo28 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:19 am

American diet is horrendous. I stopped eating animals in the last year, I recommend it to everyone. I have also started using things like natural toothpaste and mouthwash, shampoo and body soap, and deodorant. I get a lot of these products from the Vitamin Shoppe. It's never too late to start. I have never felt better in my entire life.

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Re: Veganism

Postby Wild Heretic » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:32 pm

lingo28 wrote:American diet is horrendous. I stopped eating animals in the last year, I recommend it to everyone. I have also started using things like natural toothpaste and mouthwash, shampoo and body soap, and deodorant. I get a lot of these products from the Vitamin Shoppe. It's never too late to start. I have never felt better in my entire life.


I'm not really knowledgeable on this, but I did read that for a certain metabolic type (common in northern Europe apparently), a short period of time (days to weeks) on a vegetarian diet is a great way to detox and makes them feel great, but not medium or long term. There was another metabolic type that did the best on a southern med/middle east/Indian sub continent vegetarian type diet only. I forget about it now though. I'd worry that diet is not a one-shoe-fits-all policy and wouldn't try and shoe horn anyone down a particular path.

The best thing I notice for my health personally is mineral supplements. I also did a strong oral detox with multi-mineral ascorbates which made me feel absolutely elated for a couple of days, but with a severe detox reaction.

In 2007 I also did a herb bowl cleanse coupled with a fast. I managed to just complete the required 5 day period. All I drank was water and apple juice. One of the herb dosages was raw (not capsules) and was disgusting to take, but what came out of my bowels was gross. I did several no.2s over those 5 days culminating in the strangest looking bright yellow hairy worm parasite right at the last bowel movement on the 5th day. Most of the stuff was what they call mucloid plaque which had lined my intestine. By the end of the 5th day I couldn't take it any longer and had to have two giant half-pound cheese burgers. Even then, that only half satiated my hunger.

I tried it again in 2012, but it wasn't the same type of cleanse. It was only capsules and didn't have any effect on me. I forgot where I got the original disgusting 2007 cleanse herbs from, but they certainly did work.

I feel I'm in need of another major cleanse. A week just drinking juice and some kind of bowel cleanse would be very nice.
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

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Re: Veganism

Postby outerheaven » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:08 pm

I have a lot I could say on the topic of diet, but I'll try to just list a few thoughts some might find interesting.

- Three meals a day puts us in a heavy, almost sedated trance -- but one that is very 'grounded' and has more physical energy reserves, thus good for labor. Not so great for open-minded thought or spiritual understanding.

- People should experiment with fasting -- the changes in consciousness are HUGE. Even on a two-day fast, I feel like the 'spirit door' has opened significantly.

- Government subsidies for mono-culture farms. UGH. This is one of the big lynch-pins of the control scheme, IMO ... if it weren't for the giant welfare farm churning out soybean and corn, you'd free people from the 9-6 office jobs and have them taking more of an active role in feeding themselves by necessity. You'd have a proliferation of small, local farms, thus empowering the local community, which is what the elites want to avoid at ALL costs -- the name of their game is 'centralizing' power.

- We absolutely can get by with less food, but it's hard when you have to work and pay bills. Like I said, with less food, your consciousness shifts and your energy reserve dips. Until we can 'free' ourselves from this system ... IMO, we have to understand that continuing our earthly existence is a 'service to self,' and one that requires the consumption of lifeforms. No, I'm not saying this to justify the eating of meat. I'm saying it because we have to recognize suffering in all its forms and learn how to transmute it before we can move on. Thank your food for its sacrifice, commune with it prior to harvest if possible, bless it. And forgive yourself for being caught in this control scheme, too, because forgiveness is what frees us from the karmic wheel.

RE: Parasites. WH, that's interesting and scary. I'd seen a few different 'recipes' for a bowel cleanse but haven't tried it. A few years back I was into 'rife machines' and Hulda Clark was a name that came up who recommended zapping and bowel cleanses to get rid of parasites. Ugh, I'm so curious, and you might just have inspired me to finally do it.

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Re: Veganism

Postby Curious » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:28 am

Copernicant wrote:I find this topic fascinating and want to thank all of the contributors in this thread, especially nummi. I hope that everyone can get past personal feelings and past experiences so that we can continue to explore this important topic together.

I don't have much to add, other than my personal opinions which I am not sure are very relevant as they are very much still being formed. I'm currently reading this book, which I find generally excellent in many ways but I think the conclusions are erroneous (specifically, the fruitarian arguments).


Excellent read, thanks for sharing Copernicant !
For me this book shows, how someone who is on the right path, makes improper conclusions about dieting, especially eating only raw fruits. I support eating raw vegetables, eggs, fish and plenty of fat and meat from good farms.
"He who seeks the truth must doubt everything." -- Aristotle


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